cut & paste group photo

hi - I'm not a graphics person,
but have been using PSP 5.x for years to touch up photos, edit pixels, etc..

I now have the classic situation of a group photo for my son's swim team,
and there was one person "out" that day.... hence, not in the photo.
I have a head/bust shot of him, and would like to place him into the group 
photo.

I can't seem to get it right playing with layers.
All I want is the selection from the head shot - cut out -
and then placed "behind" the rest of the folks in the group shot...
like a 
real world cut & paste.
I can get the cut out using the freehand tool,
but don't know how to totally place the selection "behind" the group 
photo....
What am I missing here.... go slow with the layers, as I'm stumbling enough 
:) 

"P.Schuman" wrote:
> 
> hi - I'm not a graphics person,
> but have been using PSP 5.x for years to touch up photos, edit pixels,
etc..
> 
> I now have the classic situation of a group photo for my son's swim team,
> and there was one person "out" that day.... hence, not in the
photo.
> I have a head/bust shot of him, and would like to place him into the group
> photo.
> 
> I can't seem to get it right playing with layers.
> All I want is the selection from the head shot - cut out -
> and then placed "behind" the rest of the folks in the group
shot... like a
> real world cut & paste.
> I can get the cut out using the freehand tool,
> but don't know how to totally place the selection "behind" the
group
> photo....
> What am I missing here.... go slow with the layers, as I'm stumbling
enough
> :)

What you are missing is that you are dealing with an image and
not the real world. This means you don't actually put anyone
"behind" anything. Instead you create the *illusion* that someone
is behind other people. You do this by pasting the person on a
new layer above the group photo layer. Then you erase those parts
of the pasted person that would be hidden by the members of the
group. Since a regular layer such as the one on which you have
pasted the person (using Edit > Paste > As New Layer in PSP 5)
supports transparency, you can use the Eraser brush to remove the
content you don't need, exposing the layer below. As an alternative
to erasing the content you can select what you don't need and then
delete it by pressing the Delete key. I prefer the Eraser technique
because you can control the softness of the erased edge using the
Hardness setting in the brush Tool Options and you can easily
right-mouse unerase anything you inadvertently erased in error.
Whichever technique you use it will help you to temporarily lower
the opacity of the upper layer in the Layer Palette so you can
see both the content you are erasing and the content below it.
The content below will be your guide to what needs to be erased.

One aspect of making a realistic result is to make sure the edges
of your pasted content look right. You may want to review this
link http://pages.prodigy.net/kerrypierce/kyra.html in that regard.
Other things to be concerned with is the size of the content you
pasted, which can be adjusted with the Deform tool (right mouse
maintains aspect ratio), and the level of noise in the picture
(which you can reduce with some of the options in the Blur menu or
enhance with the Image > Noise > Add option). Still another
consideration when realism is important is the light direction.
Since faces are seldom symmetrical simply mirroring the face to
get the light on the correct side of it won't be convincing.
However, you can adjust lighting by using the Retouch brush and
choosing Lighten RGB, Darken RGB, Dodge, Burn, Lightness Up or
Lightness Down. I recommend using those at a very low Opacity
setting and building up the effect with multiple strokes of the
brush.

"Spandex Rutabaga" <SpRu@agabatur.xednaps> wrote in message 
news:47768AAF.E25630D0@agabatur.xednaps...
>
> "P.Schuman" wrote:
>>
>> hi - I'm not a graphics person,
>> but have been using PSP 5.x for years to touch up photos, edit pixels,

>> etc..
>>
>> I now have the classic situation of a group photo for my son's swim
team,
>> and there was one person "out" that day.... hence, not in the
photo.
>> I have a head/bust shot of him, and would like to place him into the 
>> group
>> photo.
>>
>> I can't seem to get it right playing with layers.
>> All I want is the selection from the head shot - cut out -
>> and then placed "behind" the rest of the folks in the group
shot... like 
>> a
>> real world cut & paste.
>> I can get the cut out using the freehand tool,
>> but don't know how to totally place the selection "behind"
the group
>> photo....
>> What am I missing here.... go slow with the layers, as I'm stumbling 
>> enough
>> :)
>
> What you are missing is that you are dealing with an image and
> not the real world. This means you don't actually put anyone
> "behind" anything. Instead you create the *illusion* that
someone
> is behind other people. You do this by pasting the person on a
> new layer above the group photo layer. Then you erase those parts
> of the pasted person that would be hidden by the members of the
> group. Since a regular layer such as the one on which you have
> pasted the person (using Edit > Paste > As New Layer in PSP 5)
> supports transparency, you can use the Eraser brush to remove the
> content you don't need, exposing the layer below. As an alternative
> to erasing the content you can select what you don't need and then
> delete it by pressing the Delete key. I prefer the Eraser technique
> because you can control the softness of the erased edge using the
> Hardness setting in the brush Tool Options and you can easily
> right-mouse unerase anything you inadvertently erased in error.
> Whichever technique you use it will help you to temporarily lower
> the opacity of the upper layer in the Layer Palette so you can
> see both the content you are erasing and the content below it.
> The content below will be your guide to what needs to be erased.
>
> One aspect of making a realistic result is to make sure the edges
> of your pasted content look right. You may want to review this
> link http://pages.prodigy.net/kerrypierce/kyra.html in that regard.
> Other things to be concerned with is the size of the content you
> pasted, which can be adjusted with the Deform tool (right mouse
> maintains aspect ratio), and the level of noise in the picture
> (which you can reduce with some of the options in the Blur menu or
> enhance with the Image > Noise > Add option). Still another
> consideration when realism is important is the light direction.
> Since faces are seldom symmetrical simply mirroring the face to
> get the light on the correct side of it won't be convincing.
> However, you can adjust lighting by using the Retouch brush and
> choosing Lighten RGB, Darken RGB, Dodge, Burn, Lightness Up or
> Lightness Down. I recommend using those at a very low Opacity
> setting and building up the effect with multiple strokes of the
> brush.
>
tnx for the reply...
Yesterday, I was able to use the freehand tool to select the head shot,
which I had manually re-sized to get the same general dimensions as the 
group photo.
Not sure if there is another way.

Then pasted the image as a new layer onto the group shot.
That's where I got stuck.  I kept trying to put that layer behind/below the 
group shot.
Kept thinking like the real world cut and paste....

SO - I'll have to play later with pasting it as a new layer,
and then erasing the overlap area between the layers.....
Guess you have to view the current layer, erase a little, then view all, 
then view current layer, repeat...

A new learning experience :)

"P.Schuman" <pschuman_no_spam_me@interserv.com> wrote in
news:477695d0$1_3@cnews: 

> Then pasted the image as a new layer onto the group shot.
> That's where I got stuck.  I kept trying to put that layer
> behind/below the group shot.
> Kept thinking like the real world cut and paste....
> 

You can actually do that also.  You can place your head/shoulders shot 
approximately where you want it, then select the background layer in the 
layer's palette (hide your upper layer) and use the freehand tool to make a 
selection of the people in the group behind whom you wish to place the head 
shot.  Then do Selections>Promote Selection to Layer, and drag that layer 
in the layers palette above the head shot layer, which you can now make 
visible again.

I'm going on the assumption that, in PSP5, you can promote a selection to a 
layer :-)

Regards,

JoeB

"P.Schuman" wrote:

> SO - I'll have to play later with pasting it as a new layer,
> and then erasing the overlap area between the layers.....
> Guess you have to view the current layer, erase a little, then view all,
> then view current layer, repeat...

No, you lower the transparency of the upper layer you are erasing
so that you can simultaneously see both the upper layer and the
lower layer. It's not very difficult. If you do find it difficult
for some reason you can hide the top layer by turning off the
layer visibility and make a selection on the bottom layer. Then
you unhide to top layer and make it active, whereupon you can
use the selection to delete unwanted content from the top layer.