database question

Hi all,

I do hope I won't be completely wrong by posting this question here. As far as I
think mostly DBA or database access related programmers are browsing/posting to
this forum, perhaps this is a rather right place to ask this moving it from the
eDirectory support forum.

I am trying to use eDirectory as user and activities related data repository as
extensively as possible. In my day-by-day job I have to deal with many different
topics, so I can not consider myself as a DBA, a programmer or a network
administrator, but I have to face situations where these specific skills will be
strongly welcome. So, please, accept my apologies if my questions are two simple
or even stupid.

One of the most common situations I have to face is having users that hold
different positions in different organizations (an enterprise, an NGO, a public
body,...). The user must be unique in the directory but, for instance, the
contact information contact, is specific for each user/organization combination.
The contact information doesn't belong neither to the organization (represented
in the three by an Organization Unit), nor to the user (represented in the three
as an user object). I can represent different "secondary" positions
for a given user by using alias objects, but I am not able to figure out how to
store the contact information other than creating extra attributes for each new
position an user could hold.

This way, each time a different user occupies a new position, I am forced to
create new attributes and populate them just for this user leaving theses
attributes empty for all the others.

Please, is there any way of storing information for an user located in a given
organizational unit other than to store it in attributes belonging to the
classes inherited by the user or the organizational unit by themselves?

I do hope this message is not a complete mess and it makes some sense for you.
Thanks in advance.

Best,

Ricardo

Its not the best forum, but I don't think that there is a forum that handles the
exact question
you are asking. The eDir/LDAP forums are one answer, but unless someone
complains here
is as good as any.

The question you have asked, looks like a normal database normalization, where
you have data
that does not fit in the 2 objects (orgs and users). The normal answer is to add
another object
that sits between the original objects. This can be done by creating an
additional object class.
As with a normal database you use pointers that link the different objects
together. In eDir this
is normally done with by creating addition distinguished name attributes, which
act as 
pointers between objects and are updated by the directory if objects are
renamed.

To develop this solution, is beyond forum based questions, do you have time to
learn more
about eDirectory and how it works?

Roger Thomas, DevNet SysOp 22 
  "The PhoenixTN ICT Team" <webmaster@phoenixtn.net> wrote in
message news:W5ZLe.5467$RK5.507@prv-forum2.provo.novell.com...
  Hi all,

  I do hope I won't be completely wrong by posting this question here. As far as
I think mostly DBA or database access related programmers are browsing/posting
to this forum, perhaps this is a rather right place to ask this moving it from
the eDirectory support forum.

  I am trying to use eDirectory as user and activities related data repository
as extensively as possible. In my day-by-day job I have to deal with many
different topics, so I can not consider myself as a DBA, a programmer or a
network administrator, but I have to face situations where these specific skills
will be strongly welcome. So, please, accept my apologies if my questions are
two simple or even stupid.

  One of the most common situations I have to face is having users that hold
different positions in different organizations (an enterprise, an NGO, a public
body,...). The user must be unique in the directory but, for instance, the
contact information contact, is specific for each user/organization combination.
The contact information doesn't belong neither to the organization (represented
in the three by an Organization Unit), nor to the user (represented in the three
as an user object). I can represent different "secondary" positions
for a given user by using alias objects, but I am not able to figure out how to
store the contact information other than creating extra attributes for each new
position an user could hold.

  This way, each time a different user occupies a new position, I am forced to
create new attributes and populate them just for this user leaving theses
attributes empty for all the others.

  Please, is there any way of storing information for an user located in a given
organizational unit other than to store it in attributes belonging to the
classes inherited by the user or the organizational unit by themselves?

  I do hope this message is not a complete mess and it makes some sense for you.
Thanks in advance.

  Best,

  Ricardo

Thanks, Roger.

I do hope nobody complains! But I get your point and double-apologise for
irrupting here with this question. I have posted new entries in several forums
promising that one day I will contribute with an answer instead of with a
problem/doubt, but I am not able to reach this point! Thanks to the forums,
thanks to Susan in this particular one, I have survived for years. I am sure the
people that use this collaboration media in a more professional way have a name
for persons like me!

I found several keys in your message. For me, the most important are the
creation of new object classes and the addition distinguished name attributes
concept. A search in the Developers website throws a huge number of related
AppNotes. I have at hand the regular Novell Netware documentation and a couple
of books about NDS/eDir (Troubleshooting NDS by Peter and Jim has been another
key point in my survival! :-) I am conscious of the need of spending time
learning more about eDir. Thus, I need to find this time.

But I can not ask for a formal learning process at this time (even though I have
tried o find a way for years), so I will appreciate if any of you could give me
a couple of threads to walk toward a solution to this eDir normalization issue.
Thanks in advance.

With my best regards,

Ricardo

Don't worry about being able to answer any questions as payback for answers you
have received in the 
past. The SysOps are rewarded with a few perks here and there. To be honest from
a SysOps point of
view the more questions the better.

I've never seen a full beginners guide to NDS development and most of the docs I
started with are from
the days of NW4 as this is when NDS first shipped. Since then Novell seems to
have relied developers
moving to the LDAP based interfaces. For yourself this another learning curve
and will complicate 
what you are trying to learn.

I guess the first question, is what languages do you like to program in. Novell
has a range of interface
and I maybe able to point you to some Novell examples that may help.

One thing you need to decided will be your ability to use these new objects
within your environment.
If you use NWADMIN32 you can not easily the new objects. For consoleOne you are
limited to the
'other' tab - all very basic, while for iManager you have the Plug-in Studio
that allows a general 
screen to be created.

Roger Thomas, DevNet SysOp 22


  "The PhoenixTN ICT Team" <webmaster@phoenixtn.net> wrote in
message news:7i5Me.28$1J2.3@prv-forum2.provo.novell.com...
  Thanks, Roger.

  I do hope nobody complains! But I get your point and double-apologise for
irrupting here with this question. I have posted new entries in several forums
promising that one day I will contribute with an answer instead of with a
problem/doubt, but I am not able to reach this point! Thanks to the forums,
thanks to Susan in this particular one, I have survived for years. I am sure the
people that use this collaboration media in a more professional way have a name
for persons like me!

  I found several keys in your message. For me, the most important are the
creation of new object classes and the addition distinguished name attributes
concept. A search in the Developers website throws a huge number of related
AppNotes. I have at hand the regular Novell Netware documentation and a couple
of books about NDS/eDir (Troubleshooting NDS by Peter and Jim has been another
key point in my survival! :-) I am conscious of the need of spending time
learning more about eDir. Thus, I need to find this time.

  But I can not ask for a formal learning process at this time (even though I
have tried o find a way for years), so I will appreciate if any of you could
give me a couple of threads to walk toward a solution to this eDir normalization
issue. Thanks in advance.

  With my best regards,

  Ricardo

Thanks! Let me then try to contribute to the SysOps spirit!

I have been trying to survive, with some success, in this world since the days
of NW2! I don't remember exactly the name of that release... :-) When NDS was
introduced, NWADMIN32 and Schemax 1.1 (as far as I know it was the first and
last release of this nice product) were of great help for me allowing to develop
in a quite simple way screens to load populate new classes/attributes. Now, with
C1 I have managed to "enjoy" the other tab. My most urgent problem is
related with the design of the new classes, the "normalization"
problem you have pointed out early in this thread. I can load information by
using the "other" tab and retrieving it with ODBC/MS Query/MS Office
Suite in a rather simple way. Of course it is not the end of the path, but allow
me to go on surviving!

I more or less understand the LDAP basis at the extent of creating very simple
dynamic JSP web pages by using the LDAP/JDBC and I see at the end of the path,
before a new paradigm is constructed, iManager, portal services, Web Services,
exteNd,... But I am at the moment a bit of a mess and I am not able to find the
way to go ahead.

I don't know if all this makes some sense for you. I would try to resume the
situation by saying:

1. I need to store information related with already created eDir objects that
doesn't fit in the "by default" structure.
2. I can understand the normalization concept and how to deal with this issue
while working with the relational model but I am a bit lost trying to solve the
same issue with eDir.
3. I would like to use "web based services" to load and retrieve
information as soon as possible and to programmatically do the same in the
future (I would like to say "near" future...) being able of
implementing "business rules" and move to a "portal"
environment.

I know that the number of Novell commercial products facing this objectives are
huge and powerful, but at this moment I can only rely in the NW6.5/Novell
Developer out of the box and freely available tools.

I do hope you or any other SysOp can help me to find the way by taking into
account such a number of factors! In the meantime, I will take a look at the
iManager Plug-In Studio you speak about.

Thank you so much,

Ricardo